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	<title>Comments on: Moose at the threshold</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/</link>
	<description>Thoughts and stories from a vegan-turned-hunter</description>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-797</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-797</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Phillip. I’m glad you’re enjoying the blog and finding value in my odd perspective!

Those are great words you’ve chosen, “reliving” and “remembering,” in describing the kind of specific, intense relationship with food and nature that you experience when you eat wild game. The experience is precious and, I think, relatively rare among modern folks.

From where I’ve been and from the folks I’ve known, I’d say it’s a significant part of what adult would-be hunters yearn for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Phillip. I’m glad you’re enjoying the blog and finding value in my odd perspective!</p>
<p>Those are great words you’ve chosen, “reliving” and “remembering,” in describing the kind of specific, intense relationship with food and nature that you experience when you eat wild game. The experience is precious and, I think, relatively rare among modern folks.</p>
<p>From where I’ve been and from the folks I’ve known, I’d say it’s a significant part of what adult would-be hunters yearn for.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-794</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 20:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-794</guid>
		<description>Great post, Tovar! 

I think you&#039;re hitting on something here that I have sort of started taking for granted... but I get it every time I eat a piece of wild game (which is almost every home-cooked meal).  You kinda go there in a different way in your &quot;Accidental trophy&quot; post, by the way...  

The meat is as much a &quot;trophy&quot; of the hunt to me as any set of antlers or tusks, in that I relive the hunt and the experience when I eat it.  I remember the individual animal, something I could never know from a piece of meat raised, slaughtered, and butchered in some factory farm.  I also remember the hunt, the experiences of the day I killed the animal... sometimes it even stirs memories of the things that were going on in my life at the time... things well beyond the hunt itself.  

I&#039;ve lived in farm communities and experienced the slaughter of cattle and pigs, but never raised and killed my own.  I don&#039;t know if it would carry the same weight as my wild game... but since I&#039;m not much of a farmer anyway, I&#039;m not sure that it would.  

Anyway, I&#039;m completely enjoying your posts as they show me an aspect of hunting and even of eating meat that I&#039;d never seen or really considered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Tovar! </p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re hitting on something here that I have sort of started taking for granted&#8230; but I get it every time I eat a piece of wild game (which is almost every home-cooked meal).  You kinda go there in a different way in your &#8220;Accidental trophy&#8221; post, by the way&#8230;  </p>
<p>The meat is as much a &#8220;trophy&#8221; of the hunt to me as any set of antlers or tusks, in that I relive the hunt and the experience when I eat it.  I remember the individual animal, something I could never know from a piece of meat raised, slaughtered, and butchered in some factory farm.  I also remember the hunt, the experiences of the day I killed the animal&#8230; sometimes it even stirs memories of the things that were going on in my life at the time&#8230; things well beyond the hunt itself.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lived in farm communities and experienced the slaughter of cattle and pigs, but never raised and killed my own.  I don&#8217;t know if it would carry the same weight as my wild game&#8230; but since I&#8217;m not much of a farmer anyway, I&#8217;m not sure that it would.  </p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m completely enjoying your posts as they show me an aspect of hunting and even of eating meat that I&#8217;d never seen or really considered.</p>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-720</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 16:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-720</guid>
		<description>Interesting. I know folks who don&#039;t hunt, but do raise and slaughter livestock, and they express a similar feeling of relationship.

There are, of course, differences, most readily spoken to by those who both hunt/fish &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; raise meat animals. Which is the gist of the new post I just put up...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I know folks who don&#8217;t hunt, but do raise and slaughter livestock, and they express a similar feeling of relationship.</p>
<p>There are, of course, differences, most readily spoken to by those who both hunt/fish <em>and</em> raise meat animals. Which is the gist of the new post I just put up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: NorCal Cazadora</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>NorCal Cazadora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 15:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-718</guid>
		<description>No. As the baby in the family, I was always left out of that work, even when I&#039;d really gotten old enough to help - it was just habit for the family by then.

I once beheaded a gopher witih a shovel to protect our garden and trees, but that&#039;s it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. As the baby in the family, I was always left out of that work, even when I&#8217;d really gotten old enough to help &#8211; it was just habit for the family by then.</p>
<p>I once beheaded a gopher witih a shovel to protect our garden and trees, but that&#8217;s it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-716</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 13:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-716</guid>
		<description>Yes, I agree that it is about relationship, of various kinds.

I know you grew up around domestic meat animals, Holly, and have—on your blog—written about your perceptions of domesticated-vs-wild animals. Did you ever have a hand in killing before you started hunting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree that it is about relationship, of various kinds.</p>
<p>I know you grew up around domestic meat animals, Holly, and have—on your blog—written about your perceptions of domesticated-vs-wild animals. Did you ever have a hand in killing before you started hunting?</p>
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		<title>By: NorCal Cazadora</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-713</link>
		<dc:creator>NorCal Cazadora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 18:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-713</guid>
		<description>Interesting. My perspective on meat also changed when I started eating the animals I had killed; the only difference is that I&#039;d been a meat eater all along.

But there is something about the relationship with the meat - it is a consummation of our relationship with the planet. Not in the sexual/dominance vein that PETA so loves to highlight, but in a far more spiritual sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. My perspective on meat also changed when I started eating the animals I had killed; the only difference is that I&#8217;d been a meat eater all along.</p>
<p>But there is something about the relationship with the meat &#8211; it is a consummation of our relationship with the planet. Not in the sexual/dominance vein that PETA so loves to highlight, but in a far more spiritual sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-639</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 01:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-639</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your follow-up comment, Arthur. I always appreciate hearing your thoughts.

To be sure, some vegans and vegetarians do end up with serious health problems. Then again, the standard American diet—full not only of meat, but also of processed foods, hydrogenated oils, and high fructose corn syrup—is arguably a lot worse for most folks than well-balanced vegetarian fare!

Thankfully, my health has only encountered minor bumps in the road so far. Having chicken, fish, and wild game in my diet over the past 9 or so years has definitely made me feel healthier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your follow-up comment, Arthur. I always appreciate hearing your thoughts.</p>
<p>To be sure, some vegans and vegetarians do end up with serious health problems. Then again, the standard American diet—full not only of meat, but also of processed foods, hydrogenated oils, and high fructose corn syrup—is arguably a lot worse for most folks than well-balanced vegetarian fare!</p>
<p>Thankfully, my health has only encountered minor bumps in the road so far. Having chicken, fish, and wild game in my diet over the past 9 or so years has definitely made me feel healthier.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-638</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 01:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-638</guid>
		<description>Tovar,

For sure hunting brings some discomfort in the form of grief and sadness.  I think most hunters feel the same thing - and the ones that don&#039;t I&#039;m a little leery of.

I was just curious about what health issues you were experiencing.  And I do realize that you were not on a crusade against veganism or vegetarianism.  I  have no problem with those lifestyles either - if that is what you believe, and it is part of your convictions, I completely understand, and have no problem with that.

The only reason I asked is because I&#039;ve heard from a few different former vegetarians that they started including meat in their diet again, because of health issues - and I was wondering if yours were along the same lines.

Another great post, and another great conversation that is happening over here.  I love it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tovar,</p>
<p>For sure hunting brings some discomfort in the form of grief and sadness.  I think most hunters feel the same thing &#8211; and the ones that don&#8217;t I&#8217;m a little leery of.</p>
<p>I was just curious about what health issues you were experiencing.  And I do realize that you were not on a crusade against veganism or vegetarianism.  I  have no problem with those lifestyles either &#8211; if that is what you believe, and it is part of your convictions, I completely understand, and have no problem with that.</p>
<p>The only reason I asked is because I&#8217;ve heard from a few different former vegetarians that they started including meat in their diet again, because of health issues &#8211; and I was wondering if yours were along the same lines.</p>
<p>Another great post, and another great conversation that is happening over here.  I love it!</p>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-637</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 22:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-637</guid>
		<description>A great set of connections and experiences to be exposing your kids to, DEM!

Butchering an animal your own size really is quite an experience, isn&#039;t it? I agree that it can be an immensely valuable part of the process of &quot;honoring, respecting, and connecting,&quot; as you aptly put it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great set of connections and experiences to be exposing your kids to, DEM!</p>
<p>Butchering an animal your own size really is quite an experience, isn&#8217;t it? I agree that it can be an immensely valuable part of the process of &#8220;honoring, respecting, and connecting,&#8221; as you aptly put it.</p>
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		<title>By: Deus Ex Machina</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/05/moose-at-the-threshold/#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>Deus Ex Machina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 11:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=964#comment-636</guid>
		<description>It is exactly this connection that I am trying to develop and instill in my kids.  I took up bow hunting a few years ago and have had some incredible experiences.  We also have worked, for some time, at raising some of our food, including rabbits and chickens for meat and growing gardens.  This year we are trying to expand our foraging knowledge.  We frequent local farms and often know the animal&#039;s name when we eat the meat.  As homeschoolers, we have always focused a bit on showing the kids &quot;where their food comes from&quot;.

It seems funny when others do not have this connection.  I &lt;a href=&quot;http://mooseboots.blogspot.com/2010/02/unexpected-gifts-part-2.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;received a gift of a deer&lt;/a&gt; that was hit by a car in March.  My son-in-law was on hand to assist with the cleaning as I had never cleaned such a large animal.  During the whole process of cleaning and butchering, we took some meat and cooked it on the fire where we were also boiling down maple sap.  He prides himself on being an outdoors man and hunts and fishes as often as possible.  He got squeamish while eating a bit of the venison while watching me continue the butchering - for me, it was part of the process of honoring, respecting, and connecting with this animal who gave its life to sustain me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is exactly this connection that I am trying to develop and instill in my kids.  I took up bow hunting a few years ago and have had some incredible experiences.  We also have worked, for some time, at raising some of our food, including rabbits and chickens for meat and growing gardens.  This year we are trying to expand our foraging knowledge.  We frequent local farms and often know the animal&#8217;s name when we eat the meat.  As homeschoolers, we have always focused a bit on showing the kids &#8220;where their food comes from&#8221;.</p>
<p>It seems funny when others do not have this connection.  I <a href="http://mooseboots.blogspot.com/2010/02/unexpected-gifts-part-2.html" rel="nofollow">received a gift of a deer</a> that was hit by a car in March.  My son-in-law was on hand to assist with the cleaning as I had never cleaned such a large animal.  During the whole process of cleaning and butchering, we took some meat and cooked it on the fire where we were also boiling down maple sap.  He prides himself on being an outdoors man and hunts and fishes as often as possible.  He got squeamish while eating a bit of the venison while watching me continue the butchering &#8211; for me, it was part of the process of honoring, respecting, and connecting with this animal who gave its life to sustain me.</p>
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