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	<title>Comments on: When hunters ruin the hunt</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/</link>
	<description>Thoughts and stories from a vegan-turned-hunter</description>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1512</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 12:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1512</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment, Sam.

There are, as you say, multiple &quot;anti&quot; stances. Lots of people are okay with the concept of hunting (at least for food), but are less comfortable with hunters, either as a result of stories and stereotypes they&#039;ve absorbed or as a result of personal experience.

And it&#039;s true: even hunters have mixed feelings about hunters. My opinion of other hunters depends heavily on their attitudes and behaviors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Sam.</p>
<p>There are, as you say, multiple &#8220;anti&#8221; stances. Lots of people are okay with the concept of hunting (at least for food), but are less comfortable with hunters, either as a result of stories and stereotypes they&#8217;ve absorbed or as a result of personal experience.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s true: even hunters have mixed feelings about hunters. My opinion of other hunters depends heavily on their attitudes and behaviors.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1510</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 19:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1510</guid>
		<description>I read the comments and I think perhaps there is some misunderstanding about what an &quot;anti&quot; really is. There is the &quot;anti-hunter&quot; and the &quot;anti-hunting&quot;.  The &quot;anti-hunting&quot; folks are the stereotypical HSUS types. They don&#039;t like to kill things, etc. The &quot;anti-hunter&quot; folks are generally landowner types who don&#039;t like the baggage that comes from having people freely hunt their property. They aren&#039;t against hunting, but simply don&#039;t want to be a participant, want to limit use, or don&#039;t want to be treated poorly. (It would also appear this group includes the hunter like the one mentioned in the blog as he wants to opt out as well) This group is the one which is driving the increase in the amount of posted property. The anti-hunting sentiment might be fading, but the increase in volume of closed land suggests the anti-hunter sentiment is increasing.   This is the reason why the &quot;anti&quot; crowd has no legislative traction.  The anti-hunter people don&#039;t care about broad based changes. They are not part of the &quot;anti-hunting&quot; group despite usually being mislabelled as anti-hunting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the comments and I think perhaps there is some misunderstanding about what an &#8220;anti&#8221; really is. There is the &#8220;anti-hunter&#8221; and the &#8220;anti-hunting&#8221;.  The &#8220;anti-hunting&#8221; folks are the stereotypical HSUS types. They don&#8217;t like to kill things, etc. The &#8220;anti-hunter&#8221; folks are generally landowner types who don&#8217;t like the baggage that comes from having people freely hunt their property. They aren&#8217;t against hunting, but simply don&#8217;t want to be a participant, want to limit use, or don&#8217;t want to be treated poorly. (It would also appear this group includes the hunter like the one mentioned in the blog as he wants to opt out as well) This group is the one which is driving the increase in the amount of posted property. The anti-hunting sentiment might be fading, but the increase in volume of closed land suggests the anti-hunter sentiment is increasing.   This is the reason why the &#8220;anti&#8221; crowd has no legislative traction.  The anti-hunter people don&#8217;t care about broad based changes. They are not part of the &#8220;anti-hunting&#8221; group despite usually being mislabelled as anti-hunting.</p>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1316</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1316</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Swamp Thing. I obviously agree: &quot;It&#039;s our responsibility to make these things right.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Swamp Thing. I obviously agree: &#8220;It&#8217;s our responsibility to make these things right.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ingrid</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1315</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1315</guid>
		<description>As one who&#039;s long been on the non-hunting side, thank you for articulating this. We have much less power to change the entrenched structure regarding hunting than people tend to believe, even coming those individuals and orgs intimately acquainted with the health and well-being of wild animals.

Furthermore, the funding structure of our game departments favors hunters. The numbers of people participating in non-lethal wildlife activities far outnumbers hunters. And yet there are no fees levied on binoculars or other products and activities that would allow us as viable, respectable and as strong a voice. 

It&#039;s a rare wildlife &quot;refuge&quot; in this state where I don&#039;t share the ground with waterfowl hunters in the winter and have to witness what to me, is very disturbing activity -- the rampant and often irresponsible slaying of the birds. I&#039;ve seen far too much of that behavior, unfortunately.

This is why I have tried to state over and over that change will only come from within the hunting community. It&#039;s why I value the topics Tovar and Holly and others here are opening to general discourse, difficult though that self-assessment of hunting may be. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a slippery slope from internal policing to abolition. On the contrary. It&#039;s the worst practices that tend to bring on the external policing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one who&#8217;s long been on the non-hunting side, thank you for articulating this. We have much less power to change the entrenched structure regarding hunting than people tend to believe, even coming those individuals and orgs intimately acquainted with the health and well-being of wild animals.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the funding structure of our game departments favors hunters. The numbers of people participating in non-lethal wildlife activities far outnumbers hunters. And yet there are no fees levied on binoculars or other products and activities that would allow us as viable, respectable and as strong a voice. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a rare wildlife &#8220;refuge&#8221; in this state where I don&#8217;t share the ground with waterfowl hunters in the winter and have to witness what to me, is very disturbing activity &#8212; the rampant and often irresponsible slaying of the birds. I&#8217;ve seen far too much of that behavior, unfortunately.</p>
<p>This is why I have tried to state over and over that change will only come from within the hunting community. It&#8217;s why I value the topics Tovar and Holly and others here are opening to general discourse, difficult though that self-assessment of hunting may be. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a slippery slope from internal policing to abolition. On the contrary. It&#8217;s the worst practices that tend to bring on the external policing.</p>
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		<title>By: Swamp Thing</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1314</link>
		<dc:creator>Swamp Thing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1314</guid>
		<description>Let me tell you, from watching 12 straight years of (fading) anti-hunter sentiment in the Northeast......

The only (ONLY) time the anti-hunters carry ANY favor with the legislators is after a hunting &quot;incident&quot; in which someone was injured, someone poached game, or a harvested animal was not dealt with legally/ethically. 

When we lose hunting rights, we - the hunters - are to blame. Nobody&#039;s listening to the anti&#039;s.  It&#039;s our responsibility to make these things right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me tell you, from watching 12 straight years of (fading) anti-hunter sentiment in the Northeast&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>The only (ONLY) time the anti-hunters carry ANY favor with the legislators is after a hunting &#8220;incident&#8221; in which someone was injured, someone poached game, or a harvested animal was not dealt with legally/ethically. </p>
<p>When we lose hunting rights, we &#8211; the hunters &#8211; are to blame. Nobody&#8217;s listening to the anti&#8217;s.  It&#8217;s our responsibility to make these things right.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1309</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 04:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1309</guid>
		<description>Ingrid, I&#039;m flattered at my ex ante abilities to get you to build a better birdbath!

This has been a great set of comments.  I&#039;m glad I read &#039;em.

I think we all can go out now and fight the good fight, against the clueless life!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ingrid, I&#8217;m flattered at my ex ante abilities to get you to build a better birdbath!</p>
<p>This has been a great set of comments.  I&#8217;m glad I read &#8216;em.</p>
<p>I think we all can go out now and fight the good fight, against the clueless life!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Koury</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1299</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Koury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1299</guid>
		<description>Tovar, 

Being unsuccessful early-on raises an excellent discussion point. Being unsuccessful at my first outing for turkey this year seems to have increased my desire to learn more about their habits, habitat, and life cycle. I&#039;ll be back out again first hunting day in May.

I found the same happened to me when I went four years without a deer and as a child, a number of years without catching a trout (lots of other species, but not the one I was after).

I guess after a failure (or several of them) it causes you to either drop the activity or go at it with a renewed (more comprehensive) approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tovar, </p>
<p>Being unsuccessful early-on raises an excellent discussion point. Being unsuccessful at my first outing for turkey this year seems to have increased my desire to learn more about their habits, habitat, and life cycle. I&#8217;ll be back out again first hunting day in May.</p>
<p>I found the same happened to me when I went four years without a deer and as a child, a number of years without catching a trout (lots of other species, but not the one I was after).</p>
<p>I guess after a failure (or several of them) it causes you to either drop the activity or go at it with a renewed (more comprehensive) approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1290</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1290</guid>
		<description>For you, Tamar, what constitutes a &quot;lucky&quot; first season may be a toss-up. It was for me. In retrospect, I&#039;m glad it took me a few years to get a deer.

Now, I find I do enjoy certain aspects of the hunt. Killing is not one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For you, Tamar, what constitutes a &#8220;lucky&#8221; first season may be a toss-up. It was for me. In retrospect, I&#8217;m glad it took me a few years to get a deer.</p>
<p>Now, I find I do enjoy certain aspects of the hunt. Killing is not one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tamar@StarvingofftheLand</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamar@StarvingofftheLand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t sure where to get a comment in on all the nesting, so I figured I&#039;d just pile on here at that end re: Ingrid&#039;s comment that she has yet to meet a hunter who dreads hunting season.

I decided to hunt because it seemed to me to be a prudent use of resources and a way to ensure that the animal I eat lived a decent, animal-appropriate life.  I will kill a deer on principle.  I am dreading it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t sure where to get a comment in on all the nesting, so I figured I&#8217;d just pile on here at that end re: Ingrid&#8217;s comment that she has yet to meet a hunter who dreads hunting season.</p>
<p>I decided to hunt because it seemed to me to be a prudent use of resources and a way to ensure that the animal I eat lived a decent, animal-appropriate life.  I will kill a deer on principle.  I am dreading it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tovar</title>
		<link>http://www.tovarcerulli.com/2010/07/when-hunters-ruin-the-hunt/#comment-1285</link>
		<dc:creator>Tovar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tovarcerulli.com/?p=1337#comment-1285</guid>
		<description>Phillip has put up a related post on his blog, following from one of Ingrid&#039;s comments above about &quot;tradition&quot;: http://californiahuntingtoday.com/hogblog/2010/07/16/the-value-of-tradition/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillip has put up a related post on his blog, following from one of Ingrid&#8217;s comments above about &#8220;tradition&#8221;: <a href="http://californiahuntingtoday.com/hogblog/2010/07/16/the-value-of-tradition/" rel="nofollow">http://californiahuntingtoday.com/hogblog/2010/07/16/the-value-of-tradition/</a></p>
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